Why ‘Men And Women Can Never Be Just Friends’ is B.S.

One of the joys — and I use the word loosely — of my job is discovering the many, many ways that people attempt to turn love, sexual attraction and the absence thereof into something that it is not. The best example, obviously, is The Friend Zone: the ghost prison that girls exile good, healthy men into since FUCK YOU PENIS, THAT’S WHY. Of course there is that pesky problem the Friend Zone does not actually exist. It is not a case of a means of keeping guys on the hook for nefarious purposes. It’s only 1 person who doesn’t need to fuck another, and yet another person — almost always a man — who can not get over it.

Through time, I have observed many erstwhile sexual philosophers try to specify The Friend Zone in several ways, by a scam into a social ill that had to be fixed by the authorities. But in my time I’ve never really seen someone attempt to make the case the Friend Zone is really an issue of national security. But hey, that is exactly what Hans Fiene did over in The Federalist.

“What I am proposing is… we kill The Friend Zone.”


The most recent numbers on American birth rates have been in, and they yield just one reasonable conclusion: We all want to start having more babies or else the forthcoming demographic tsunami will eat our country, cripple our social programs, and leave us with a future so bleak that our sole source of joy is going to be the moment we are chosen to get the sweet, deadly kiss of the Obamacare Death Panels, the Trumpcare Firing Squads, or the OprahCare Hemlock Squadrons.

Perhaps I am overstating the danger that a little (Doctor’s Note: OH YA THINK?) , but the point remains: Americans have to elevate our sagging birth prices. Among the best ways we can do this is by reversing the tendency of Americans waiting longer to get married. So, aside from tearing down America’s institutions of higher education, which are inclined to slow down the recitation of marriage vows, how can we do that? It’s quite straightforward. We tear down the Friend Zone.

No, you aren’t misreading this. Fiene is starting things off by equating The Friend Zone as being a vital contributor to the decrease in birth rates.

It’s parked perpendicularly to reality.

Now, Fiene is asserting that this is 60 percent satire and just 40% serious. However, you know what?

Let us do so, shall we?

“Gentlemen, It Is Time For Some Game Theory.”

Fiene begins with a rather common — and honestly tired — theme: guys aren’t and in fact can’t be friends with girls. His position — with the rigor of a YouTube”social experimentation” (he actually cites) — is straightforward: any guy who spends one-on-one time using a single woman is in fact angling to get a date. No. For real.


Likewise, I am also claiming that a man can not truly be your buddy if he secretly wants to date you. Virtually every man who matches the one time qualification does, actually, want to date you. To understand why, it helps to look at things from an economic standpoint.

Why is it important to check at this from an economic standpoint? Because — based on Feine:

The average man lives in a competitive friendship marketplace where some kinds of friendship appeal to him more than others and so get his business.

Evidently it’s a really competitive marketplace, seeing as guys really have few close male friends whatsoever and lose almost all of them as they become older. But that lack of closeness is a fantastic thing because what guys need is not closeness or emotional intimacy, it is explosions, nasty farts and soccer games1. In reality, coming from your psychological shell is a terrible thing that women insist on; male friends are a blessing since they are happy to let you stew in silence.

“Remember: no actual names. No eye contact at ANY TIME. Do not make it odd bro.”
Needless to say, if you are a girl who happens to also delight in blowing things up, kung-fu films and gross-out comedy… well in Fiene’s world, you’re a poor second. You’re — by virtue of having an X chromosome — incapable of enjoying these to the level that men need.

(It is somewhat telling that Fiene never addresses, state, trans guys; are they capable of enjoying farts and explosions into a suitably manly level? How about non-binaries? And what about gay and bi guys? Lesbians?

No really, states Fiene. Stop. You are getting your girl-cooties all over it. You are making him uneasy with your whole”emotional intimacy” and”speaking” and”not using insults as terms of affection”. Girls, in this economic model, are worth less than men. Men are simply a much better investment at each level than women.

In actuality, ladies, there’s only 1 thing you could give him that he can not get from friends.

“It’s cool if we just crank it right?”
“Long as you are angry about it. And call me a fag as you do it.”

Continuing his trend of attempting to describe human interactions in the most dehumanized way possible, men trade their time for products. And since women can’t — ever — give guys the suitably unemotional physical existence that they need, why on God’s good green Earth would guys ever spend time together? Because there’s just 1 thing they’re good for. But I’ll allow Fiene clarify, complete with the second-worst metaphor for sex2 on the Whole site:

It is not because he needs your friendship. It is because he wants to convince you to start up the supply chain of a romantic relationship to him, and he foolishly thinks he can do this by being a loyal friendship client.

“Hey baby, want me to grab the means of production?”
Now to make sure: Fiene isn’t a misogynist, all signs in his column aside. Why they are so gentle and sweet and enchanting, even when he is describing”not fucking someone” in terms of a customer service complaint. But the issue is that, well…

However, because God made these virtues to lure men into marriage, the average man won’t ever be content to get those gifts in a sort of companionship that does not lead to marriage.

I just want this to sink in for a minute. Allow the”logic” of the wash over you and bathe you in its own sublime idiocy. Girls are designed by God to be sweet and nurturing to be able to trick men into marriage. A woman’s character is just the pheromone to lure men to the Venus Flytrap that waits to swallow him. Men may literally not be”just friends”. A girl who befriends a man without putting out is — by definition — a cocktease who’s defying the will of God. And that is bad because there’s literally nothing that a person can do about this. He’s doomed if he spends time with her since he literally can’t find a woman in anything aside from terms of”must put my dick in her”.

No, I am not exaggerating. Fiene really says this.

Telling him he is like a brother to you won’t stop his mind from crying”Marry that girl and impregnate her now” when he experiences your femininity.

I’ll give Fiene charge; by framing his argument of”people can not be friends because guys can not be friends with girls”, he creates a excellent example of the idea of”Begging The Question“.

So. Let us examine the logic on display here. Male relationships are inherently untrue. Men barter time for friendship with other guys. Men can’t be friends with girls because they will need to fuck her. Therefore, by not communicating or fucking them, women are cheating guys by not giving them the products that guys are paying for.

OK, still with me? Cool. Now hang on because it really gets worse.

In Fiene’s world, a girl not setting out for her male friends is bad enough. But there is a worse crime being committed: since he is stuck in this quagmire, he is not fucking different folks. And to make sure: that is not his fault. He is just too dumb to overrule his boner.

No. For real. That is Fiene’s argument.

Repeat the”We are just friends” mantra a thousand times. It will not rewire the circuits of the male mind. All it will accomplish is deluding you into believing he’s content to keep in the Friend Zone quicksand and deluding him into believing he can break out of it by sinking even deeper.

Fiene. Bro. Amigo. This is not The Friend Zone, this is Oneitis. If you are going to attempt and swerve in my lane, then at least get your terms right.

But let’s return to the assumption. Men are trapped at the Friend Zone because being told that they are just friends is not enough to make them realize that she won’t ever sleep with him. Being friends is the snare that girls, bless their hearts, can not help but ensnare men into since Lord love’em these boners are only SO POWERFUL. It’s only because girls do not frame the rejection in only the perfect way — as is incumbent on them to free men from their snares.

Again, I am not exaggerating. This is literally his debate.

Consider your best guy friend. Are you attracted to him? Can he fill you with all the biological urge to repopulate the earth? If not, then do your”buddy” a strong and let him go. Call him up and tell him”It is not my fault your facial symmetry grosses out my ovaries, but it was my fault that I received your hopes up by putting you in the Friend Zone. As restitution, please take the telephone numbers of five women I know who find you attractive. Quit wasting your time and go hang out with a woman who might one day bear your children.”

An individual can’t help but envision Fiene at his regional Applebee’s on karaoke night, his tie askew and shirt dishevelled and stained with spilled mojitos, mournfully crooning Kim Wilde tunes while he makes uncomfortable prolonged eye-contact with girls in the audience.

In fairness, Fiene is not completely wrong here: men are normally those that Friend Zone themselves on the routine. But the matter isn’t that girls are”trapping” guys using their sacred femininity, it is because men confuse of friendship for intimate sex. And little wonder, seeing as the civilization that Fiene observes is one that motivates men to feel vulnerable to fucking every girl he meets and intragender friendship as something inherently inferior to gender and shallower relationships between men.

It is not that surprising really, considering that Fiene sees girls he can not fuck as being unworthy.

What’s the Point Of You?

If she is not giving it to him, then she’s quite literally pointless.

Don’t worry he was really just in this for the friendship. Truth be told, you’re not particularly good at supplying him in the first location. However, you’ll be quite good at supplying him what God made you to give himmarital bliss.

Girls are there strictly for being impregnated by men that are incapable of any kind of self-control once their manhood is activated. If she is not cranking out babies (preferably white ones), she’s no purpose in this world. This is not terribly shocking, in all honesty. It is part and parcel of this school of conservatism that is presently on the ascent.

The reason that this premise that women are baby-making machines, period, is so insidious is that it is framed as a moral matter. Vice President Pence’s famous”will not be alone with a girl” is styled as”won’t let himself be tempted into sin” — and more on that in another — but the underlying message is”that there is no reason to be alone with a girl that does not involve sex.” More than ever, success — whether in politics or business — is determined by networking. Folks get their start in their careers not by having the best resume but by knowing the proper people. Frequently, that media happens over dinner, beverages, even just one-on-one conversations with friends.

But when girls are”not able” to be friends — when girls are viewed as nothing but honeytraps — then they’re systematically excluded from any sort of advancement. They’re turned from individuals into baby-making machines that are there strictly to snare dick. The fact that girls are just there suggests that guys instantly default to cavemen that are only there to put their dicks in where they can. It is important, in the era of their Pussy-Grabber-In-Chief that so many Republican politicians vote against addition or gay and trans rights since they would just exploit those principles to attack women.

“I am not saying trans individuals are liars, I am saying that I would commit numerous crimes to find boobs if I would not get punished for them.”
This, more than anything else, is why so many men and women find Fiene’s”Men and Women Can Never Be Friends” to be such offensive bullshit: due to precisely how dehumanizing it is.

Being caught in the Friend Zone is an inarguable drag on fertility rates, as a guy who spends a long time pledging his heart to a woman who will never have his kids is also a guy who probably won’t procreate with anyone else during that time of incarceration. Free him to find a girl who wants to marry him, however, and he will have several more years to sire children who will laugh, make, sing, fill the world with love and, most of all, pay into Social Security.

What’s So Funny (About The Systemic Devaluation Of Girls )

“But Doc,” I hear you shout,”He says it is mostly satire! Does not that mean we should not take it seriously?”

To begin with, as Alyssa Rosenberg states in her piece for the Washington Post, presuming 40 percent of trash is still trash.

Just as importantly though is that this is not satire. Frequently, people attempt to use”It’s just satire” as a get-out-of-criticism-free card. If it’s satire, it can not possibly be true, right?

But satire is not”dumb jokes”; satire is criticism of the subject being satirized. When The Onion writes a column about an eight-billion buck Abortionplex theme park, they’re critiquing right-wing rhetoric about Planned Parenthood by alerting it to the point of being absurd. Saturday Night Live is not making fun of Trump just to be mean, they are criticizing a person who’s grossly incompetent and at the position of becoming the most powerful man on the planet.

So what, exactly, is Fiene criticizing here? It certainly is not relationships between women and men.

Is it the notion of this”demographic apocalypse” that is coming?

Could it be the Federalist’s general obsession about folks not fucking being a literal dilemma of national security?

Got to give them credit for being on-brand at the least.
There is a shitty attempt at jokes peppered through the text, but there is no sign in here that this is anything that Fiene does not actually believe to be true. Satire only works when it is comment or review, exaggerating to push home the absurdity of this subject. A Modest Proposal does not function when the British Parliament is really considering cannibalism as part of a famine relief package.

As yelling”RAPE!” Randomly, advocating for a snowy ethno-state or paying two people to hold up signs saying”Death To All Jews” does not have a pass because”it is just jokes”, calling this”satire” does not excuse the true belief that forms the thesis of Fiene’s piece: that girls who he is not impregnating are worth less than men. That guys are barely-restrained beasts in the mercy of their dicks, which not giving them sex is a crime against God.

All this argument amounts to is an attempt to pass off the reduction of women to their reproductive capacities and further the notion that men are entitled to them. Insisting that women and men can not be friends is a mortal insult to men and women alike by somebody who doesn’t appear to know women or friends.

This post was formerly published on Doctornerdlove.com and is republished here with permission from the author.


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Ask Dr. NerdLove: When Does Rejection Stop Hurting?

What is happening Doc,

I am in need of some tips on the best way best to take rejection better. Not always in the moment when it happens because I feel like I have become a pro at that, but in the days that linger on until you have met someone else you are into and also the person who rejected you remains on your social orbit.

Here’s a story to illustrate what I mean:

So first things first, I am heavily involved with the stand-up comedy scene in my hometown. I perform, assist run shows, and manage lots of the marketing. This also means that I am a familiar face at some of the pubs in the city where shows occur. Second things second, there was this girl, see…like lots of these stories go. We go from sharing smiling glances from throughout the bar to breaking up the ice. Some nights we would speak with one another, other nights we would stick to our own social groups because she does not normally come to the pubs I do shows at to the stand-up comedy, she simply has a great deal of friends who go to the exact places.

Anyhow, on one particular night we wind up interacting in the same general group following a series until the team wittles down to just the two of us, and then proceed to ask her on a date. She informs me that she is in a newish connection but is flattered by the suggestion. I try my best to place any nervousness she may have at ease by cracking a few jokes; leaving not too long after by wishing her a great night, which she smiled ear to ear and seemed to genuinely value.

So hey, seems like a favorable story? I didn’t get what I wanted but in accordance with my observation she seemed to find my effort charming and I put myself out there even though I did not know where I’d land. I have not dated someone in more than a year because of being, frankly, devastated from losing a job I loved (albeit at a poorly paying business ), and have been regaining confidence by going back to college to get a higher paying career shift that’s finally beginning to show its upside. I admire her choices and don’t have any intentions of asking her or even referencing it in jest.

Thing is, the next time we were in exactly the exact same bar I frankly had no damn clue how to behave around her. We did not talk, I stuck purely by my friend group the whole night, at the one moment where our glances met by chance I averted my eyes instantly, and I left the pub the first opportunity I could after getting paid. Basically I feel like I went from being a fun man in her existence to a walled-off coward in the area of just over a week. I believe a huge part of this is that I have taught myself to roll with the punches when it comes to girls turning me down because I am confident I can/will find somebody who’s into me, but on some level I am embarrassed by being the identical space with somebody who I’ve been exposed in front of, however briefly and comparatively irrelevant.

So Dr. NerdLove, I am not too concerned about what I need to do regarding this particular girl since I’ll really be away from my hometown for the upcoming few weeks for work and any remaining awkwardness will have faded by then. What I’m concerned with is being ashamed about the rejection after the truth. It certainly makes me wonder how cool I really am with rejection when I have a lingering shame about it. Is there a way to deal with the fact that jealousy is in fact just irreparably humiliating and no amount of steely confidence at the moment it occurs can overcome that? Is there a lesson to be learned from my letter that anybody else could benefit from?

Barfly Affected by Emotions

So I’m gonna be honest here: you are kind of inventing a problem on your own, BAE.

I mean, you did everything right. You saw someone who is a regular on your different hang-outs, you must know her, the both of you have comfortable enough to hang out and speak by yourself, you made your move without hesitation and took her refusal with great grace. While it’s a shame that things did not work out, those are literally what I tell people to do if they see someone they are interested in.

Here’s the part that is not quite lining up for me, BAE: why should you behave any differently around her? Literally nothing has changed. It is not like you were harboring deep feelings for her or that you had a friendship of longstanding and your asking her on a date unexpectedly altered the context of your connection. Likewise it is not like you did anything wrong, embarrassing or uncomfortable when you asked her out. That seems to me like everything went as smoothly as you could hope for.

So why do you have some reason to be uneasy around her? Well, the answer to that is in how you are considering this, not just how cool you are or are not with rejection.

See, the issue you are having is not that you’re exposed with her, the problem is that you’re exposed and you were rejected. It is that feeling of”Great, I did what everybody tells me to do and it did not work. Glad I opened myself up to pain for no good goddamn reason.”

Which is entirely clear; when you are letting yourself be vulnerable to someone, it seems just like you are doing something that’s going to make you look bad. It feels like you have done something embarrassing or shameful and revealed a side of yourself which you keep hidden. But here is the thing about vulnerability: it is actually a strength. It is showing the world that you don’t find your authentic feelings to be shameful or something which has to be hidden. When you are letting yourself be exposed, you are showing the world that you are powerful enough to be your authentic self rather than putting up a mask which you think the world would like to see. You are living openly and honestly and sincerely, and to be perfectly blunt: Many people can not manage living like that.

How you told someone you were attracted to them and wanted to take them out on a date is not anything to be ashamed about. Hell, the fact that you made your move is commendable. It is a shame that it did not work how you’d expect, but how you did it at all is something you ought to be proud of. There is no reason to feel awkward about her or to attempt to prevent her because you did not do anything to feel awkward about. Honestly, avoiding her will make things more awkward since it sends messages that are odd, despite the fact that you do not intend for it to do so.

So what do you do about it? Take a deep breath, let it out slowly and then push that first sense of”oh god I am embarrassed” and act like nothing has changed. This is easy because, basically, nothing has changed. It is all exactly the same as in the moments before you asked her out on a date. So when you force yourself to pretend it (at first), you will realize very quickly that you are not having to pretend it; what will flow smoothly and normally and you will relax to the familiar old routines before you know it.

You don’t have any reason to feel ashamed, BAE, nor do you want steely confidence to get over this. All you will need to do is alter the context of the way you see being exposed. It is not something over and beyond or something awkward. It is just you leaning to being your authentic, real self.

And that will make it much easier to find somebody who may want to go out on this date with you.

Very good luck.

I want some platonic advice:

So, I am moving away in a month or two (I am living in Taiwan and’m returning back to America) and lately a female friend reached out to me wanting to throw a party for me before I leave. Super nice sentiment and all that, but a few issues:

— We were rather seeing each other last year. Nothing serious and far from actually anything just spending the majority of the weekend together and she wanted me to sleep within her place (I insisted on the sofa because I did not want to cross a line) when we hung out and we kissed a couple of times. However, the moment another man she wanted to get with got back into town she ghosted on me for months. I finally got over it, but still kinda bites, so this is sort of out of left field.

— We don’t have any friends in common, and the friends of hers I have met I suspect do not care for me.

— She is younger than me (23 vs 30) and parties very hard while my blackout drunk times are behind me.

My question is this:

How do I turn her down party idea politely and suggest perhaps we do something similar to just go get drinks and catch dinner or something only the two of us without coming across as with any sort of amorous overtures to the thought?
I legitimately just need a platonic hang out and I am worried that if I turn down a larger party with plenty of drunk people I do not understand or really enjoy in lieu of a scenario that means more to me like”how about just the two of us” will look like I am trying to make a move.

— Kautious in Kaouhsiung

I believe I need a bit more info, KiK. My first question is”how close are you?” How you phrase things makes it seem as if you have not seen much of each other as you had your short flirtation. That alone raises a couple of questions for me. However, the fact that you also don’t have any friends in common or overlapping social circles is what actually makes my Spidey-sense tingle. I don’t think she is planning anything untoward or malicious, but it is a bit weird to want to throw a farewell party for you once you have not been visiting each other in months. I suspect this is less of a”celebration” and more just excuse to see you before you proceed. Maybe she wishes to compensate for having ghosted on you for so long. Maybe she just wants a last opportunity to hang with you until you are gone for good. Who knows?

That having been said, I do not believe you really have to worry about her taking things the wrong way if you indicate another plan. While it’s possible that she would see this as an effort to produce a move, that isn’t really your problem. You can not really control how people interpret what you say; regardless of how clearly or explicitly you state it, some individuals will always hear what they want to hear, regardless.

So in the event you don’t need a party, just tell her you do not need a party and suggest a few other ideas instead. Then just relax and enjoy this opportunity to see your buddy before you leave, rather than getting hung up on”what if she thinks I am trying to make a move?” Either she will realize that this is a strictly platonic-hang-out in the jump… or she will figure it out once you, y’understand, do not hit on her.

Very good luck.

This post was formerly published on Doctornerdlove.com and is republished here with permission from the author.


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